WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:07.000 Everybody, let's welcome Abigail. 00:07.000 --> 00:08.000 Hi. 00:08.000 --> 00:10.000 Talking about storytelling. 00:10.000 --> 00:11.000 Storytelling. 00:11.000 --> 00:13.000 Welcome. 00:13.000 --> 00:14.000 Yeah. 00:14.000 --> 00:15.000 And thank you all so much. 00:15.000 --> 00:16.000 Welcome to our talk. 00:16.000 --> 00:18.000 And it is such an honor to be here. 00:18.000 --> 00:20.000 So thank you so much to all the organizers. 00:20.000 --> 00:21.000 Everything that's going on. 00:21.000 --> 00:22.000 This is where I stand. 00:22.000 --> 00:23.000 Thank you. 00:23.000 --> 00:24.000 It's been great. 00:24.000 --> 00:27.000 And you might notice someone's missing from up here. 00:27.000 --> 00:30.000 And is here in spirit actually sounds like he died. 00:30.000 --> 00:31.000 He's very much alive. 00:31.000 --> 00:35.000 And he's here virtually in Matrix answering questions. 00:35.000 --> 00:41.000 So actually during this talk, if you want to ask questions while I'm speaking, you can type it in Matrix. 00:41.000 --> 00:42.000 And Arvin will answer it. 00:42.000 --> 00:46.000 Then at the end, I'll actually open the Matrix and see what questions happened. 00:46.000 --> 00:48.000 Answer, read out his response. 00:48.000 --> 00:49.000 So he's here. 00:49.000 --> 00:50.000 He's presenting with me. 00:50.000 --> 00:54.000 I hope it wasn't too much false advertising with him as a co presenter. 00:54.000 --> 00:55.000 But he's here. 00:55.000 --> 00:58.000 So we miss you, Arvin. 00:58.000 --> 01:04.000 So to kick us off, I spent years working on software that really transformed an entire field of research. 01:04.000 --> 01:09.000 Seattle against the researchers is the worm that's crawling around behind me. 01:09.000 --> 01:11.000 Thousands of them were using worm base. 01:11.000 --> 01:15.000 And they used this to study, yeah, it's a central data repository for a Seattle against research. 01:15.000 --> 01:20.000 And people would regularly tell me that their work wouldn't exist without worm base. 01:20.000 --> 01:23.000 But when it came time for academic recognition, 01:23.000 --> 01:25.000 it was not there. 01:25.000 --> 01:28.000 The impact of the software was undeniable. 01:28.000 --> 01:31.000 But the system didn't really see that or recognize it. 01:31.000 --> 01:33.000 And I've heard the story again and again for researchers. 01:33.000 --> 01:35.000 I'm sure it's a common story that many of you have heard. 01:35.000 --> 01:44.000 And that's, there's this big disconnect between the impact of the open source software that powers research and the system that's doing recognition. 01:44.000 --> 01:48.000 So worm base does publish papers every release, but it would be such a big lift. 01:48.000 --> 01:52.000 And compared to the number of people that were using it, very few are actually citing it. 01:52.000 --> 01:59.000 So because of problems like this, that's exactly why initiatives like the journal of open source software exist. 01:59.000 --> 02:04.000 Arvin founded this, my lovely virtual presenter. 02:04.000 --> 02:09.000 And really the core idea is to make software papers as easy as possible to write. 02:09.000 --> 02:13.000 So if you have a repository that has a readme, it's really well documented. 02:13.000 --> 02:16.000 It shouldn't take more than an hour to put together submission. 02:16.000 --> 02:19.000 And then once it's there, the reviews, it all happens on GitHub. 02:19.000 --> 02:22.000 So it's really made for developers to make it easy to publish papers. 02:22.000 --> 02:29.000 So you're not going through the whole formatting process or this rigorous review stuff for journals that often don't accept software papers. 02:29.000 --> 02:32.000 So this is a nice easy way to get your paper published. 02:32.000 --> 02:38.000 And then the primary purpose of a jazz paper is to enable citation credit to be given to authors of research software. 02:38.000 --> 02:45.000 And we do have dead cats in the room when the editor is so if you have jazz questions, feel free to ask Dan. 02:45.000 --> 02:48.000 Or in matrix, Arvin will also answer those. 02:48.000 --> 02:51.000 And I was one of the founding editors for jazz. 02:51.000 --> 02:57.000 And the big reason I came back into jazz classes because it's, I just loved how it worked. 02:57.000 --> 02:59.000 It works like an open source project. 02:59.000 --> 03:03.000 So the reviews, use GitHub notification to invite reviewers. 03:03.000 --> 03:04.000 It all happens in the open. 03:04.000 --> 03:08.000 It's all volunteer contributions from the editors and the reviewers. 03:08.000 --> 03:12.000 It's a nice way to work openly and a problem that affects this entire community. 03:12.000 --> 03:14.000 There's a lot of chat ops also. 03:14.000 --> 03:17.000 It's a very open source. 03:17.000 --> 03:20.000 So the code is MIT license. 03:20.000 --> 03:23.000 So you can see that on the open journals repo or going GitHub. 03:23.000 --> 03:27.000 The papers themselves are CC by license with the author retains the copyright. 03:27.000 --> 03:31.000 And over the past eight years there's been about 3000 papers published. 03:31.000 --> 03:33.000 So it's a lot of stories. 03:33.000 --> 03:36.000 And today I am talking primarily about jazz cast. 03:36.000 --> 03:38.000 This wasn't experiment for both Arvin and myself. 03:38.000 --> 03:43.000 So yeah, thousands of papers, thousands of authors each one is a story waiting to be told. 03:43.000 --> 03:44.000 So you publish a podcast. 03:44.000 --> 03:47.000 You can get it in multiple versions. 03:47.000 --> 03:51.000 We have video versions, audio versions on your favorite podcast app. 03:51.000 --> 03:54.000 And just a recap season one. 03:54.000 --> 03:56.000 We had 20 episodes. 03:56.000 --> 03:59.000 And here we focused mainly on the paper. 03:59.000 --> 04:02.000 So we'd ask authors questions about the software that they wrote. 04:03.000 --> 04:07.000 Background of the author is why they wrote the software where they knew to open source. 04:07.000 --> 04:10.000 Which challenges they face, why they decided to publish in jazz. 04:10.000 --> 04:15.000 How that experience was and how people can get involved on their software. 04:15.000 --> 04:18.000 Because most of these were really looking at contributors. 04:18.000 --> 04:21.000 Really looking to build a community of contributors on their software. 04:21.000 --> 04:25.000 And as you're preparing this Arvin actually asked me, was it hard to find guests? 04:25.000 --> 04:26.000 It was actually really easy. 04:26.000 --> 04:28.000 There's so many great papers in jazz. 04:28.000 --> 04:31.000 We had above a 50% guest invitation acceptance rate. 04:31.000 --> 04:35.000 I actually don't know if that's normal for podcasts. 04:35.000 --> 04:38.000 It was great for me. 04:38.000 --> 04:42.000 So every month I would just look at the papers that were published over the past month 04:42.000 --> 04:44.000 and then invite a handful of them. 04:44.000 --> 04:47.000 And that was enough to keep going with the podcast. 04:47.000 --> 04:50.000 And yeah, there's a great set of stories here. 04:50.000 --> 04:52.000 And it was a great time. 04:52.000 --> 04:56.000 So what did we learn from this experiment with storytelling? 04:57.000 --> 05:00.000 And first lesson is that jazz cast really helped authors get recognition. 05:00.000 --> 05:05.000 So most of the authors said that having an episode really helped their career. 05:05.000 --> 05:09.000 And I love this quote from one of the guests. 05:09.000 --> 05:13.000 It increased the promotion of our open source code by providing a different channel. 05:13.000 --> 05:15.000 Two conferences or papers. 05:15.000 --> 05:18.000 One other person mentioned that it was part of their annual review. 05:18.000 --> 05:23.000 So it was really nice, like people wanted this kind of recognition on a podcast. 05:24.000 --> 05:29.000 So that was great. And it was a bit of a surprise to us seeing this survey result. 05:29.000 --> 05:34.000 On the next one, I guess really appreciated this opportunity to discuss their research and have this platform. 05:34.000 --> 05:37.000 So I like this quote from one of the guests. 05:37.000 --> 05:39.000 And it was fun idea. 05:39.000 --> 05:42.000 I absolutely found the projects featured very interesting. 05:42.000 --> 05:44.000 And the people very much like minded. 05:44.000 --> 05:46.000 I felt that many projects share the heroes journey. 05:46.000 --> 05:49.000 Perhaps being all together can foster more collaboration. 05:49.000 --> 05:53.000 Or spark new ideas with jazz cast as the neighbor for such spark. 05:53.000 --> 05:57.000 So there's this a theme that we saw with the episodes. 05:57.000 --> 06:00.000 It can be quite lonely writing software in this research space. 06:00.000 --> 06:03.000 Oftentimes you feel like you're doing this alone or in a bit of an island. 06:03.000 --> 06:07.000 So could we be more of that glue and bring these people together? 06:07.000 --> 06:09.000 People really wanted that. 06:09.000 --> 06:12.000 And they liked the experience of having a platform to share their research. 06:12.000 --> 06:16.000 So this question is a little bit different than what we're talking about. 06:16.000 --> 06:19.000 But they had a great experience going on there. 06:19.000 --> 06:20.000 They wanted to come on. 06:20.000 --> 06:22.000 They wanted to talk about their research. 06:22.000 --> 06:26.000 And then here podcasting is a learning curve. 06:26.000 --> 06:28.000 I learned a lot going through this. 06:28.000 --> 06:31.000 So first, the great conversation takes prep. 06:31.000 --> 06:34.000 We would share the questions with authors beforehand. 06:34.000 --> 06:36.000 And they really appreciated that. 06:36.000 --> 06:37.000 So they knew what to expect. 06:37.000 --> 06:42.000 But I will say we started asking the same questions for every paper. 06:42.000 --> 06:46.000 It's just got like a little bit stale for us as hosts. 06:46.000 --> 06:48.000 We're asking the same questions again and again. 06:48.000 --> 06:52.000 So we're trying to find that balance between how much prep to have, 06:52.000 --> 06:54.000 while still having an engaging conversation. 06:54.000 --> 06:58.000 We just don't hear the same answers as the same questions every single time. 06:58.000 --> 07:03.000 Spending ten, five to ten minutes just chatting beforehand is really great. 07:03.000 --> 07:06.000 Most of these people is the first time they're on a podcast. 07:06.000 --> 07:09.000 So when they join, I'd make sure that the recording wasn't on. 07:09.000 --> 07:12.000 And I'd explicitly say, hey, we're not recording right now. 07:12.000 --> 07:15.000 So we just get to chat, get to know them, build some report. 07:15.000 --> 07:20.000 And people really enjoyed that so that they didn't feel like jumping straight 07:20.000 --> 07:21.000 into being recorded. 07:21.000 --> 07:24.000 They have to be on right away. 07:24.000 --> 07:27.000 And yes, some authors were more comfortable explaining the work 07:27.000 --> 07:28.000 than others. 07:28.000 --> 07:30.000 So the prep was really helpful with that. 07:30.000 --> 07:33.000 For the next one, editing, shapes experience. 07:33.000 --> 07:36.000 I didn't think it was a lot of hard work I learned. 07:36.000 --> 07:37.000 I don't know if anyone else here. 07:37.000 --> 07:41.000 I know the third one's about time. 07:41.000 --> 07:46.000 But the sensor recording on Zoom and then later removed to squad cast. 07:46.000 --> 07:48.000 Which is another platform for recording. 07:48.000 --> 07:50.000 There was always a little bit of a leg. 07:50.000 --> 07:53.000 And it was difficult to just release the conversation as is. 07:53.000 --> 07:55.000 So you had to do a little bit of editing. 07:55.000 --> 07:57.000 And I tracked a streamline that editing as much as I could. 07:57.000 --> 08:01.000 But it still took me multiple days to get one episode out. 08:01.000 --> 08:02.000 And related to that. 08:02.000 --> 08:05.000 So yeah, podcasting makes takes more time than you think. 08:05.000 --> 08:08.000 We started this podcast when I was on parental leave. 08:08.000 --> 08:11.000 This was my fun like parental leave project. 08:11.000 --> 08:13.000 I'm in Canada. 08:13.000 --> 08:14.000 So you get a year. 08:14.000 --> 08:17.000 So I had time to the baby. 08:17.000 --> 08:21.000 But a lot of this time you're recording while the baby was napping. 08:21.000 --> 08:23.000 So it's a little bit suspenseful. 08:23.000 --> 08:25.000 Like is the baby going to wake up before we finish recording? 08:25.000 --> 08:26.000 I don't know. 08:26.000 --> 08:28.000 Usually she kept slept sleeping. 08:28.000 --> 08:30.000 And my husband was there to help. 08:30.000 --> 08:33.000 But it was, yeah, it was quite time constrained. 08:33.000 --> 08:36.000 And now that I'm back on work, we're even more time constrained. 08:36.000 --> 08:40.000 And editing an episode, I found, because I would do it while she was sleeping, 08:40.000 --> 08:42.000 would take like three days. 08:42.000 --> 08:45.000 Even if I had, like, AI do a first pass. 08:45.000 --> 08:47.000 It was still quite a lot of work. 08:47.000 --> 08:50.000 But the part, oh, I forgot to mention it with the editing piece. 08:50.000 --> 08:52.000 The shorts did really, really well. 08:52.000 --> 08:55.000 So we'd normally have a couple hundred listeners, two to three, 08:55.000 --> 08:57.000 between all of our different platforms. 08:57.000 --> 09:01.000 But our shorts would get, like, sometimes thousands of views 09:01.000 --> 09:03.000 that would drive people to that episode. 09:03.000 --> 09:07.000 So I think a learning there was really, like, maybe just make sure 09:07.000 --> 09:09.000 it's, you don't have to edit the whole conversation. 09:09.000 --> 09:11.000 But we'll see. 09:11.000 --> 09:15.000 And we did streamline what we did quite a bit over time. 09:15.000 --> 09:18.000 So things like making sure we had links for recording ready, 09:18.000 --> 09:22.000 getting an intake form that would just automate a lot of things. 09:22.000 --> 09:25.000 But, yeah, we learned a lot there. 09:25.000 --> 09:29.000 So I really love this quote. 09:29.000 --> 09:33.000 It was, yeah, this is my favorite quote from one of our previous guests. 09:33.000 --> 09:36.000 They said there were notice by management, the annual review. 09:36.000 --> 09:39.000 There are notice by international collaborators. 09:39.000 --> 09:43.000 So imagine if every researcher had access to platforms that amplify 09:43.000 --> 09:44.000 their work like this. 09:44.000 --> 09:47.000 Help them gain recognition, form your collaborations, 09:47.000 --> 09:49.000 further their career. 09:49.000 --> 09:52.000 So for this next part, we'll season two. 09:52.000 --> 09:55.000 We're really thinking about how can we iterate on this work 09:55.000 --> 09:56.000 so that we can keep doing this. 09:56.000 --> 10:01.000 We can keep giving this platform to people. 10:01.000 --> 10:03.000 So what's next? 10:03.000 --> 10:05.000 We're just cast season two. 10:05.000 --> 10:07.000 So first up, I'll loosen the format. 10:07.000 --> 10:10.000 So you're not just asking the exact same questions every time. 10:10.000 --> 10:14.000 And maybe switching to segments rather than the same questions. 10:14.000 --> 10:18.000 So that it still helps minimize prep because we found the regularity 10:18.000 --> 10:20.000 helped us keep prep to minimum. 10:20.000 --> 10:24.000 But still keep things as exciting as possible. 10:25.000 --> 10:28.000 Next, explore collaborating. 10:28.000 --> 10:31.000 Collaborations, bringing diverse voices and expertise. 10:31.000 --> 10:34.000 So like when the quotes we had earlier, 10:34.000 --> 10:36.000 could we have more of a panel come on? 10:36.000 --> 10:38.000 Have people talk to each other there? 10:38.000 --> 10:39.000 That might be interesting. 10:39.000 --> 10:41.000 And even taking lessons from Joss, 10:41.000 --> 10:43.000 can we work more like an open source project? 10:43.000 --> 10:46.000 Can other people come on and help us with different aspects 10:46.000 --> 10:48.000 of producing this podcast? 10:48.000 --> 10:49.000 Since this was an experiment, 10:49.000 --> 10:51.000 while I was on leave, a lot of it was done by myself and 10:51.000 --> 10:53.000 the first season, but the second season, 10:53.000 --> 10:56.000 like how can we bring others in and work a bit more openly? 10:56.000 --> 10:59.000 And then the third one, keeping it sustainable. 10:59.000 --> 11:01.000 So how can we keep this fun and lightweight 11:01.000 --> 11:04.000 since I'm no longer in that leave? 11:04.000 --> 11:06.000 And I think what we've landed on is 11:06.000 --> 11:08.000 we won't be editing the conversation. 11:08.000 --> 11:10.000 It'll be more of a live stream situation. 11:10.000 --> 11:11.000 But we'll edit shorts. 11:11.000 --> 11:13.000 I think we've got a lot of value in having shorts 11:13.000 --> 11:14.000 just to share around. 11:14.000 --> 11:19.000 So if any of you are considering podcasting or just any media, 11:20.000 --> 11:23.000 long versions are okay, but the shorts, 11:23.000 --> 11:25.000 think do really well. 11:25.000 --> 11:28.000 So how can you help? 11:28.000 --> 11:31.000 So you can help us shape season two. 11:31.000 --> 11:33.000 So you do have a listener survey up here. 11:33.000 --> 11:35.000 So even if you haven't listened to the podcast, 11:35.000 --> 11:37.000 if you're at all interested in participating, 11:37.000 --> 11:39.000 there's a question that asks about that 11:39.000 --> 11:41.000 and you can put in your contact information. 11:41.000 --> 11:43.000 So we'd love to help build season two with you 11:43.000 --> 11:46.000 if you want to be on the podcast or maybe you really like editing, 11:47.000 --> 11:48.000 editing? 11:48.000 --> 11:49.000 Yeah? 11:49.000 --> 11:52.000 That would be very helpful for me. 11:52.000 --> 11:55.000 You can get involved with Joss. 11:55.000 --> 11:57.000 You can sign up to be a reviewer. 11:57.000 --> 11:58.000 There are always looking for reviewers. 11:58.000 --> 12:00.000 They regularly have calls for new editors. 12:00.000 --> 12:02.000 So you can pay attention to that. 12:02.000 --> 12:04.000 Or you can publish your research software. 12:04.000 --> 12:07.000 It takes less than an hour if you have good documentation. 12:07.000 --> 12:08.000 Nice read me. 12:08.000 --> 12:11.000 And finally, a support opensource and research site 12:11.000 --> 12:12.000 software that you use. 12:12.000 --> 12:15.000 Support maintainers, push recognition. 12:15.000 --> 12:18.000 I know many of you in this room are already doing those things. 12:18.000 --> 12:21.000 So I did want to make lots of time for a Q&A 12:21.000 --> 12:24.000 so that we can get orphans waste there. 12:24.000 --> 12:26.000 But yeah, that's all I have for this part of the talk. 12:26.000 --> 12:28.000 Thank you, everyone. 12:28.000 --> 12:29.000 Thank you. 12:29.000 --> 12:34.000 And I'll open up. 12:34.000 --> 12:39.000 Okay, I don't think. 12:39.000 --> 12:43.000 Oh, did my matrix go over here? 12:44.000 --> 12:47.000 We can see if there's questions in the room. 12:47.000 --> 12:52.000 Why isn't my browser moving to this side? 12:52.000 --> 12:53.000 No. 12:53.000 --> 12:55.000 Are you in presentation on here? 12:55.000 --> 12:57.000 No, it's not. 12:57.000 --> 12:59.000 I don't know what he did. 12:59.000 --> 13:00.000 What if I do this? 13:00.000 --> 13:01.000 I don't know. 13:01.000 --> 13:02.000 I don't know. 13:02.000 --> 13:03.000 It's okay. 13:03.000 --> 13:05.000 Are there questions in the matrix? 13:05.000 --> 13:06.000 Okay. 13:06.000 --> 13:07.000 It's just, oh yeah, I know. 13:07.000 --> 13:09.000 It's just a little green button. 13:09.000 --> 13:11.000 Oh, that's what it is. 13:12.000 --> 13:13.000 Yeah, yeah. 13:13.000 --> 13:15.000 I know who computers were. 13:15.000 --> 13:16.000 Yes, they are. 13:16.000 --> 13:17.000 Okay. 13:17.000 --> 13:19.000 We will ask questions in the room. 13:19.000 --> 13:20.000 I do want to. 13:20.000 --> 13:21.000 There we go. 13:21.000 --> 13:22.000 Okay. 13:22.000 --> 13:23.000 Now I can drag. 13:23.000 --> 13:25.000 This over. 13:25.000 --> 13:26.000 Okay. 13:26.000 --> 13:27.000 Yeah. 13:27.000 --> 13:28.000 So it's a lot of stuff. 13:28.000 --> 13:29.000 So it's software. 13:29.000 --> 13:30.000 Please do. 13:30.000 --> 13:32.000 There is someone in the room typing. 13:32.000 --> 13:33.000 All right. 13:33.000 --> 13:34.000 It's right there. 13:34.000 --> 13:35.000 Sorry. 13:35.000 --> 13:36.000 Cool. 13:36.000 --> 13:37.000 Questions in the room. 13:37.000 --> 13:38.000 Oh, hey. 13:39.000 --> 13:40.000 Really, really cool. 13:40.000 --> 13:41.000 As usual. 13:41.000 --> 13:42.000 I think. 13:42.000 --> 13:43.000 I. 13:43.000 --> 13:44.000 I don't publish software. 13:44.000 --> 13:45.000 I don't. 13:45.000 --> 13:46.000 They're not software. 13:46.000 --> 13:48.000 And I listen to our questions. 13:48.000 --> 13:49.000 If you're day. 13:49.000 --> 13:50.000 Uh, to stay in OSS. 13:50.000 --> 13:52.000 It seems like a lot of time. 13:52.000 --> 13:53.000 We're well started. 13:53.000 --> 13:54.000 So divided. 13:54.000 --> 13:55.000 Because we're talking about. 13:55.000 --> 13:56.000 We're sorry. 13:56.000 --> 13:57.000 We're talking about. 13:57.000 --> 13:58.000 We're talking about. 13:58.000 --> 13:59.000 We're trying to talk about. 13:59.000 --> 14:00.000 We're trying to talk about. 14:00.000 --> 14:01.000 We're trying to talk about. 14:01.000 --> 14:03.000 We're trying to talk about. 14:03.000 --> 14:04.000 We're trying to talk about. 14:04.000 --> 14:06.000 We're trying to talk about. 14:06.000 --> 14:07.000 We're trying to talk about. 14:07.000 --> 14:08.000 Coming. 14:08.000 --> 14:09.000 Yeah. 14:09.000 --> 14:10.000 Yeah. 14:10.000 --> 14:11.000 Yeah. 14:11.000 --> 14:12.000 All right. 14:12.000 --> 14:13.000 The idea. 14:13.000 --> 14:14.000 So the question was. 14:14.000 --> 14:16.000 Um, would you consider a crossover. 14:16.000 --> 14:17.000 Episode. 14:17.000 --> 14:19.000 Maybe between sustain OSS and the dress cast. 14:19.000 --> 14:20.000 Uh, Phil, so you don't know. 14:20.000 --> 14:22.000 I am the host on both of those podcasts. 14:22.000 --> 14:26.000 So it would be super easy for me to be on both. 14:26.000 --> 14:27.000 But I agree with you. 14:27.000 --> 14:30.000 Sometimes we have these open source conversations in a bit of a bubble. 14:30.000 --> 14:32.000 And these open science conversations elsewhere. 14:32.000 --> 14:33.000 And we definitely need more collaboration. 14:33.000 --> 14:35.000 I was like, yeah, that's definitely something we're thinking about. 14:35.000 --> 14:40.000 Sounds like a good plan. 14:40.000 --> 14:41.000 So it's arvin. 14:41.000 --> 14:44.000 He's definitely here. 14:44.000 --> 14:46.000 There's a question. 14:46.000 --> 14:47.000 Yeah. 14:47.000 --> 14:48.000 Okay. 14:48.000 --> 14:53.000 So the things that you are often interviewing on topics that maybe you were new to. 14:53.000 --> 14:54.000 Yes. 14:54.000 --> 14:55.000 What thing? 14:55.000 --> 14:56.000 I don't know. 14:56.000 --> 15:00.000 How did you navigate or like, can say, learn to obviously not be an expert. 15:00.000 --> 15:03.000 Like, interview them in a way that's, yeah. 15:03.000 --> 15:04.000 Yeah. 15:04.000 --> 15:11.000 So the question was, um, so we're often interviewing people in topics that we're new to. 15:11.000 --> 15:12.000 And it feels that we're new to. 15:12.000 --> 15:13.000 So any tips there? 15:13.000 --> 15:15.000 I'd say I approach it with curiosity. 15:15.000 --> 15:18.000 I think sometimes I would. 15:18.000 --> 15:21.000 I would skim over something if I didn't understand it. 15:21.000 --> 15:25.000 But then I think that didn't lead to, as like, deep of a conversation. 15:25.000 --> 15:29.000 So being curious and like ask, like, when you're unsure, do ask questions. 15:29.000 --> 15:31.000 I think that makes sure you understand what's going on. 15:31.000 --> 15:33.000 And I think that really helps. 15:33.000 --> 15:34.000 Yeah. 15:34.000 --> 15:37.000 That really helps the conversation. 15:37.000 --> 15:38.000 Um, oh, yeah. 15:38.000 --> 15:41.000 And just requires the paper to be written for a generalist audience, which definitely helps. 15:41.000 --> 15:42.000 So yeah. 15:42.000 --> 15:43.000 I definitely agree. 15:43.000 --> 15:44.000 So much so there. 15:44.000 --> 15:45.000 Thanks. 15:45.000 --> 15:46.000 There. 15:46.000 --> 15:49.000 I really interested in the story telling. 15:49.000 --> 15:50.000 Yeah. 15:50.000 --> 15:51.000 Yeah. 15:51.000 --> 15:55.000 Did the researchers define, like, storytelling? 15:55.000 --> 15:57.000 How did they define storytelling? 15:57.000 --> 16:01.000 What was their journey of what, like, food storytelling was maybe before. 16:01.000 --> 16:03.000 So life after the process. 16:03.000 --> 16:04.000 Right. 16:04.000 --> 16:05.000 Yeah. 16:05.000 --> 16:07.000 So did the researchers, like, how did the researchers define storytelling? 16:07.000 --> 16:08.000 What was their journey with it? 16:08.000 --> 16:14.000 I think we tried to push them towards storytelling with our standard questions, which is what got a little bit boring. 16:14.000 --> 16:16.000 Fitting everyone in that same story. 16:16.000 --> 16:19.000 And I think one of the quotes even said, like, everyone's had this heroes journey. 16:19.000 --> 16:22.000 It's like, what was your approach to this? 16:22.000 --> 16:26.000 Um, but I don't want to lose that necessarily with them. 16:26.000 --> 16:27.000 With the season two. 16:27.000 --> 16:29.000 So this is tricky. 16:29.000 --> 16:30.000 Yeah. 16:30.000 --> 16:34.000 So we pushed them towards that, because we wanted to share first origin story. 16:34.000 --> 16:35.000 Why did you start this? 16:35.000 --> 16:38.000 And, like, your purpose in mission with this? 16:38.000 --> 16:40.000 And the next what struggles did you face? 16:40.000 --> 16:42.000 Like, this is what you're trying to get to. 16:42.000 --> 16:43.000 What stopped you? 16:43.000 --> 16:47.000 And then we closed with, like, how can others get involved? 16:47.000 --> 16:48.000 So other people came join. 16:48.000 --> 16:52.000 So we're sort of going through that arc, which I thought was nice. 16:52.000 --> 16:55.000 Um, and I think we can probably still keep, like, an arc going. 16:55.000 --> 17:00.000 But we've probably shouldn't ask the exact same question every single time. 17:00.000 --> 17:01.000 Yeah. 17:01.000 --> 17:03.000 Did Arvin say what Abby said? 17:03.000 --> 17:05.000 Thanks, Arvin. 17:05.000 --> 17:07.000 Yeah, Dan. 17:07.000 --> 17:08.000 Yeah. 17:08.000 --> 17:10.000 Can you um, can you define shorts? 17:10.000 --> 17:11.000 Oh, yeah. 17:11.000 --> 17:12.000 Oh, yeah. 17:12.000 --> 17:15.000 So a little bit about how you chose what would be in them? 17:15.000 --> 17:16.000 Yeah. 17:16.000 --> 17:18.000 So um, can you define shorts? 17:18.000 --> 17:22.000 And talk about what they're, what's, how will you decide what was in them? 17:22.000 --> 17:24.000 I'm a little jet lagged everyone. 17:24.000 --> 17:26.000 So sorry. 17:26.000 --> 17:30.000 Um, so on YouTube, there's a shorts part of it. 17:30.000 --> 17:32.000 I'm not a YouTubers. 17:32.000 --> 17:33.000 Okay. 17:33.000 --> 17:35.000 So there's a regular videos, but then shorts. 17:35.000 --> 17:38.000 On YouTube at least, they have to be less than a minute long. 17:38.000 --> 17:43.000 And we, um, I used to template that would also have the captions up. 17:43.000 --> 17:46.000 So if we had a little clip that was less than a minute long. 17:46.000 --> 17:48.000 So it's nice and tight. 17:48.000 --> 17:49.000 It had captions on. 17:49.000 --> 17:53.000 And it was like an end credit with like the episode number and title. 17:53.000 --> 17:55.000 And just cask is where you find it. 17:55.000 --> 17:58.000 Um, we were able to share that across platform. 17:58.000 --> 18:00.000 So we shared in different parts of social. 18:00.000 --> 18:04.000 And a lot of people tell me like, oh, like you popped up in my feed or I saw this. 18:04.000 --> 18:05.000 I saw that. 18:05.000 --> 18:08.000 We get a lot of traction that way, but they maybe didn't actually listen to the episode. 18:08.000 --> 18:12.000 But it did create a really big funnel for people who wanted to go and listen to that episode. 18:12.000 --> 18:14.000 How did we decide what goes in there? 18:14.000 --> 18:16.000 Um, I was using Descript for editing. 18:16.000 --> 18:19.000 I was thinking about doing more tooling talking about tooling. 18:19.000 --> 18:24.000 But I wasn't sure if this audience would want to hear like which platforms are using. 18:24.000 --> 18:26.000 But Q and A is why we have this. 18:26.000 --> 18:30.000 Um, I'm using Descript which transcribes the video. 18:30.000 --> 18:37.000 Um, but they also have tools where you can say like select five engaging clips that are about a minute long. 18:37.000 --> 18:39.000 And it would auto generate some. 18:39.000 --> 18:42.000 And then I can decide which one I wanted to pick. 18:42.000 --> 18:44.000 Or if I didn't like it, I'd pick my own. 18:44.000 --> 18:45.000 Um, but I would try. 18:45.000 --> 18:50.000 I think the prompt I use is like, um, a clip where all of us were speaking. 18:50.000 --> 18:53.000 And maybe something funny was happening. 18:53.000 --> 18:59.000 And sometimes it was that or sometimes it's something more serious when they're talking about their research and why they're doing it. 18:59.000 --> 19:04.000 Um, but I did find because I was sharing a lot of these clips on my personal social media. 19:04.000 --> 19:06.000 People wanted to see me in it. 19:06.000 --> 19:10.000 And like, when I was sharing things that were other people, 19:10.000 --> 19:14.000 they wasn't as engaging, at least for my personal social media, which made sense. 19:14.000 --> 19:17.000 So I tried to find something where all of us were talking. 19:17.000 --> 19:18.000 Yeah. 19:18.000 --> 19:19.000 Yeah. 19:19.000 --> 19:25.000 Do you see a lot of difference in leadership on the video for audio? 19:25.000 --> 19:28.000 On your track audio. 19:28.000 --> 19:29.000 Yeah. 19:29.000 --> 19:31.000 So do you see a lot of difference between video and audio? 19:31.000 --> 19:34.000 And I'd say what I thought was interesting. 19:34.000 --> 19:36.000 It depended on the episode. 19:36.000 --> 19:38.000 Um, so some episodes would do really well on YouTube. 19:38.000 --> 19:42.000 And others would do really well on like Apple podcast or Spotify. 19:42.000 --> 19:47.000 So I could see the number of downloads on Spotify because we did publish it with Spotify apps. 19:47.000 --> 19:50.000 And then I'd have to add that to what I saw in Apple podcast. 19:50.000 --> 19:53.000 This, it's kind of difficult to find stats for this. 19:53.000 --> 19:57.000 Um, but most of our episodes got roughly the same amount of views, 19:57.000 --> 20:00.000 just like distributed differently between the episodes. 20:00.000 --> 20:04.000 And I think that might be because of the person who is featured in there. 20:04.000 --> 20:06.000 Maybe they shared one or the other link. 20:06.000 --> 20:11.000 But I actually don't know why some of them did really well on platform and not the other. 20:11.000 --> 20:14.000 We should welcome our next speaker. 20:14.000 --> 20:15.000 Okay. 20:15.000 --> 20:16.000 I'm sorry. 20:16.000 --> 20:17.000 Speaker. 20:17.000 --> 20:18.000 Thank you so much. 20:18.000 --> 20:19.000 Thank you.