WEBVTT

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Is it owned by a government or an organisation? Is it the same in the digitalism and physical?

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How do you experience it? I don't know anybody who has had their identity stolen or you

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know anyone who has had that identity stolen. What does that actually mean to have your identity

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stolen? And is it possible do you have multiple identities?

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I think we're probably I think all of us in this room agreement that something anyway is currently going wrong with identity

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But we're seeing the identity and the way we use identities in the digital domain are a key sort of source and resource for

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errors, fault, fraud, but also confusion. So if we see you know the amount of passwords is massively rising to all of the different services that we log into

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But also the amount of emails and spam emails and how these are used to actually gain access to identity so fishing attempts

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I like to go through all these but one of the things is also important for us to think about is is it just people individuals of identities

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but what about things and the things that we're interacting with in the physical domain and what is that bridge between the physical and the digital?

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With all of these things that are increasingly going wrong and increasingly causing an impact on different groups

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particularly vulnerable groups we talked about people who don't have maybe digital literacy but also elderly targets

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We also see children a lot of children having their identity stolen as well

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So we're part of a group of community, disposal identities community at the end I'll put up the links so you can join this open community and join the discussion

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But we believe there's a need for a fundamental change in the way that we think about identities

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So quick diagram here so current identity models very centralized so federated identity it means that there are organizations who are

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Managing

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Possibly owning controlling our identity across multiple services, but also gives an ability as we know to track

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And trace and surveil what we're doing across multiple services

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Self-soven identity takes this from the centralized perspective and architecture to a decentralized

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but also giving the agency in the end users control

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But the challenge here, and maybe a disclaimer here, I'm not a developer, I'm a UX trained product owner

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So I'm kind of the advocate for the end user

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What we're looking here is asking people to completely change their paradigm of how they interact with identity

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From this rather easy, possibly lazy centralized to a decentralized where they are responsible

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But we'd like to move it to a disposable perspective, disposal identities, where by depending on the context

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Depending also on the timing, I actually have a completely different identity

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If you think about this, it's something we also do very much in fiscal domain

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And in the social domain, why are we not able to do this effectively? Why is it not facilitated in the digital domain?

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How many people have more than one email?

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How many people have an express? I call it like a junk email or spam email that uses organizations you don't trust

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Okay, so we're already kind of doing it anyway, so we believe that actually in the development of the digital identities

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We need to facilitate this ability to change our identities and only share the information, data minimization

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That is needed for that interaction that transaction

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And it's based on a theory, Rob

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Which is formed the base of our community

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Well, thanks, yes, it's not so much, I would say theories are big word

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You see the spider in the middle and basically what I've always noticed is that all the threads

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They sort of move to the spider, so basically in the world that we live in now

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We have all these entities and services that basically label to look at us

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And the idea is to turn that round so that the spider basically determines which type of information goes to all the other entities

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So from self-suffering identity, we'll be able to generate disposable identities

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And I think that mainly for about 80% of transactions

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We simply have to send a token payability

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So for example, if I rent a house and if I need to pay an energy provider

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All the energy provider needs to know that I can pay

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There's just very little else that he or she or the entity should know

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They're just one of my money, sort of

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So I can send them a token payability that I can pay

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That's all, that's all they need to know

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And this goes for all the other services and entities as well

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And so I can basically go through life

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Having good relationships with all these entities

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Which they basically don't have to know who I am, what I am, where I'm from

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They're just one of my money that just needs to know that I can pay

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So I send them this payability token

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And in the token of course there's something that can be unlocked if I do not pay

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If I breach the contract, they can find me which is kind of logical

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Which is very enough, but basically that's all that they would sort of have to know

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So that's basically this idea of disposable or ephemeral identities

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In a more positive sense we can say ephemeral identities

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In a more urgent sense in which we are now in which we are so much sort of under the looking glass

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It's good to speak of disposable identities, so that's what we do

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So with this, it's not really a theory, we can make it and make it a theory with this idea

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I hand over back to you in Lorna

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Right

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Yeah

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So one of the things that we see is that with identities

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There are multiple different perspectives on how we look at identity

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And also these are driving the way that we're developing the solutions

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And we see it in a moment predominantly

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It's being driven by the EUDI of

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We have to be compliant if we want to be sort of interoperable and working across all of the different countries in Europe

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We're seeing also the development of technology

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But I'd like to sort of also discuss here about the need for a social cultural perspective

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As well to sort of help drive back towards the more legal and economic perspective

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This seems to be driving development at the moment

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So use experience perspective

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A community, maybe a little bit of history

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So our community kicked off very dynamically in the pandemic

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Where we had this realization very early on in March of the pandemic

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That it would be really good to have a much more privacy security

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To support with the services for example with the tracking and tracing and vaccinations

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The group got together, we had different groups, UX team, tech team, dev team

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In the UX team we started doing scenarios

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How is this going to be implied?

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But we actually came to this realization when you put it in the real context

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There was a danger that although we would provide this autonomous private solution

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That actually we would also be creating the opportunity for another institution to block people's access

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So for example if you don't have the QR code to show that you're not infected or that you're not vaccinated

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Then your access to services and locations could be blocked

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And we decided this is not what we wanted to contribute to

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So we stopped development and as we all know that kind of started happening

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So we could see by using the user perspective what would actually happen

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So although we have the intentions of giving control to users and decentralized way

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You have to look at the context at how it might be developed

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So but we didn't stop there, we decided to continue to develop this into use cases

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We actually set up a foundation, it's a non-profit organization twins

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And we're developing an app called twins connect

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We've developed the first solution

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And we're now in the process of further developing it for open source publishing

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And also to ensure that it's actually compliant with EUDI off

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And the idea is that we have this app or this agent, this manager in between us and our services

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You could call it a wallet

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But we have, we want to call it something else

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And actually the focus is not about managing my identities

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But it's actually about managing my relationships

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Which are to do with identity and data

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So at the moment there's a lot of focus on identity

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But we see that actually the purpose is to identify myself

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So that I can transact with you with different data

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And I can actually then trust that you are who you say you are

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I can trust that you are going to use my data in the way that we've actually agreed

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I can have contracts under my control that I can actually revoke

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So there's a lot of different needs

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And we have to test it with users and when we sort of ask them

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These are the kind of things that we're building

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It seemed to make a lot of sense and resonate

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Much more than the story about having verified credentials

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And the self-sovereign identity

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So at the course of these are the properties that we are building

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So basically there's disposability

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And this could be set on a time-based

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So when I take my pet to the vet

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Only in that time is that information available

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But once that point is over

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The vet doesn't need to store or have my information

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Verifyability

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So there needs some in many cases where the risk level is increased

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How can that be verified

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Also the privacy and particularly the transparency

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So we're talking about the GDPR consent controls

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Why is that not in my control

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And I can actually see who has access to what data and when

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Number of use cases I'm not going to go into that too much now

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But so we've got a lot of these QR codes

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These are credentials

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If I have my phone in the physical domain

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But this credential saying that I am above a certain age

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Or I have the payability

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Or I have the credential to drive a car

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How do you know that's me?

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So when we start looking at in the real world

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How am I actually going to verify that this QR code

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This phone is mine

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So there's a lot of these things that when we start putting it into the physical domain

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How does this actually bridge between the physical and digital

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So who can you trust and how do you trust them?

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What can you trust when it comes to credentials and data?

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But also how do we actually build that trust?

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That's one of the things that we're working on

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And also really is this trust worthy from a user perspective

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And I'm going to sort of finish here on my perspective

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I want to throw into the room

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Can we stop talking about wallets and can we stop

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Actually walletizing and commoditizing identity

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From a social cultural perspective

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I think this is really actually quite dangerous

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And we shouldn't be going that way

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Because it's a mental model

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And what it is is actually it's driving us towards a very transactual

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And very commercial perspective on identity

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And I don't think that that's what identity is

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We don't think that's what identity is

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But at a social cultural perspective

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Should actually drive us towards designing

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Actually mental models and actually in solutions

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There are much more sort of fair and social and sustainable

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Our approach is towards relationships and connections

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Where we build up trust and in that trust

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We actually are able and enabled to share our data

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References and psychology references in computer science

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Which I think back up this perspective

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That we as humans I think is a human right

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We should be able to operate in the physical and the digital

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And the legal domain with multiple identities

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So I put a skip past this and so we've built the solution

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I say that's not yet published but this year it will be

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So join our community later the link is going to be on the screen

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But it actually has dyeing technology inside so I'm going to hand over to Andrea

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Thank you for now

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Well I believe this is for the walletizing song

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Only because I speak loud nothing happens

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Alright Andrea

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I wear two hats

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One of the non-profit foundation dyeing org

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And one of the

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For-profit BV call forpome

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We come from long history of innovation

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In 2000

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One of my co-founders

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It did the first Linux that booted from CD

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Called Dinabolic back then

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Which funny enough grabbed the attention of dark pop

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Because it was used by US military deployed in rock

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In 2011

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The same guy presented the beat coin to the cow's computer club in Berlin

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And it did the first fork

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And then in 2014 there were disagreements about a certain component inside

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The Linux that ended up in forking they'd be out into that one

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And that's when I showed up basically in the organization

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So we have a background as cryptographers

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We started working on a cryptographic version machine back in 2017

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Then we built components on top and we ended up building solutions on top

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The purpose of the cryptographic machine was primarily

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To allow non-programmers to understand a new cryptography

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So the motto was cryptography for the messes

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And that's when Xenruh, which was born

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Xenruh is so everything we do is entirely up in source

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Xenruh is written C, it builds on any platform

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On any architecture, even on cortex and chips

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And it's programmed in a dialect of cucumber-girking

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Which can be read at least by non-programmers

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Fast forward 2022

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We decided we heard about the ODRF specification

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We decided to start working on it

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We got a first grant from an NGO program

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Then we got a second grant recently

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In the middle we got a third grant to implement a compliance slash

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Interrogacy resolution that we're going to be very happy to show to Sean

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Well, it was not here

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And we are now at the stage, how much time we have?

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Yeah, plenty of time

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We are now at the stage

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Where we have a...

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Okay, the term wallet, I find it extremely unfortunate

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Because the wallet can mean a million different things

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All of people associate wallets with cryptocurrency

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When we talk about ODRF wallet

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It's not clear what it is

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So I love to use the term identity solution

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So what we have is a fully open source solution

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Where the main, the two main pillars of how the solution would work

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Would be first of all

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We do not want to store private keys of anybody anywhere

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Second, we want

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Organizations running

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Issues and very fires

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Or if we talk in the open entity for VCI language

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Authorization service, credential issues and running parties

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We want them to run them in their own infrastructure

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So we do not run any of the Microsoft ourselves

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We have a dashboard that with a low code, no code approach

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It allows you to set up a credential issue

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Then you press a button and you deploy the credential issues somewhere else

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And we can do a very quick demo here

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Let me skip to this

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So for those who are interested here, you don't load the wallet

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Which has been in the store for about the month

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For the stores

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And I enjoy the nice for about a month

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So please don't be too

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Don't expect too much from that

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And once you have installed the wallet

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And you have gone through the setup

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You can try and get a credential here

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The credential is actually one of the first integrations we have done

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You will be asked to respond to a questionnaire

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Which integrates with another open source tool

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Cobotoolbox and basically once you respond to the questionnaire

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The answers go into that tool

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And you get an SDJot

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LDARF compatible ish credential

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And we have plenty of time

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So again, this is a completely open source

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Our connection between foundation

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We have a long-standing friendship

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They look at the problem from the UX

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And humans are perspective

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We have been looking at the exact same problem

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From a cryptographic slash technical perspective

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As I said, we come from the week we have a background cryptography

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Our wallet right now, our identity solution

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Can do in the version you see online

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Can do only SDJot

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But we can also do BBS or BBS plus

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As some people know it which is

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The journalish proof flow that is getting more traction

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We can do post quantum cryptography

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We can do other journalish proof flows

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We have, we have, we're looking at the upcoming cryptography

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And we're very, very active in privacy

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Enhancing technologies

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Especially when it comes to the knowledge proofs

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We did implement this from scratch

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Meaning that we implement the open ID for VCI protocol

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Only with tools built in house

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While we did this

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We realize our painful it is

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And how broad this specification is

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So we felt the need

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To start working on tool

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That would help people

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Testing their compliance and interrability

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So we have another product we're working on

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Which is, yeah, we don't have time to talk about it now

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We may have time to talk about it tonight

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Because we have a site gig

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And, okay, I think that those who wanted to try this

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They had done it already

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There is probably a

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Yes, so we are running an event tonight at 7

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And those who want to join are very welcome to

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And I think that we have five minutes

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Yeah, let's do some Q&A

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We've got five minutes

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Did you have a question for this team?

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Please raise your hand

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And if I can ask the presenters

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And some nasty questions if you could repeat it for this

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The mic that we asked

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Can you question right here in the corner?

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Like, yeah, just here

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I think that was my question to you, can your ID be stolen?

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Yes

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Yeah, the question is, do you have something about

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Is that the recovery of my ID that's stolen or lost?

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Yeah, that's actually a question I was hoping to ask

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Because one of the challenges we've had in trying to bridge

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The sort of the user's world

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With the self-suffering identity world

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Is, of course, the recovery

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So that's one of the modules that we're developing

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From a user's perspective

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What approaches work best

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So do we have completely sort of self-suffering

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Where by, yeah, if you lose your access, you lose everything

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Or do you, would people want to have sort of brokers

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In between which kind of takes away the full on privacy

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But actually a range

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Or do you have shared secrets that you can then socially

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So we're actually looking into what makes sense

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Because again, it's a mental model paradigms

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Like, yeah, but I just like send for a password reset

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No, that doesn't work

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So that's actually one of the sort of the social sort of

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Use experience things, areas that is not solved

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And I'm not sure it's actually solved yet with UDI

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Either

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So any thoughts or suggestions, please join our community

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And feed into this, this is a developing area

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Next question, right here in front

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There are a lot of things that you have to do

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The idea of the activity

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So different things

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And how you find it in force

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And then you're like, well, you can't answer

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And then you can't answer

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Yeah, so one of the sort of solutions that we're developing

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Again, it's still, you know, in the actual real world

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It's still a question mark as to how

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It's still a problem

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It's still a problem

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But the idea is that the data that you're sharing

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You're not literally sharing

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You're giving access to

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And so what we do is you build channels

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With whoever you're having this identity in data sharing

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With and the moment you or your contract says

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This is no longer being shared

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Or access is being revoked

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Then that's sort of automatic

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Forgetability

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But it's not perfect

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And again, this is the question

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So once someone has that data

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How do you track and how do you follow what's happening with it

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One of the solutions we've actually developed a solution

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As an innovation project with a Belgian retailer

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And one of the solutions there was to separate the personal data

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From the content data

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Which actually from a commercial perspective is most interesting

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They don't need to know who you are

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But they really want to know sort of

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Amalgamated consolidated data of uses and interest

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So that's also another option

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So it doesn't matter the data goes out there

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Again, questions because as we know

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We can say there's no personal identity

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But it can still be tracked back and traced back

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So again, it's early days

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We don't have the, I think the right solutions

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But I think we have the ideas to try and get us there

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If we keep bringing it back into the real world

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We're going on a minute what happens if

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What are the unintended consequences?

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So no answers, but definitely thoughts and ideas

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Next question right there

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You're asking me

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If it's still yet another blockchain ontology

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Technology

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Technology

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No, no, no

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Our components can do blockchain to probability

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But if you try the wall from the QR code

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There is no blockchain there

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There could be

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We talked with a couple of people that would like to do KYC

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And mix blockchain KYC with the ADRF

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But that doesn't mean not yet

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It's a new question one is about

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If you invent one

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Let's go back to

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You know, I don't mean any of these great

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Particularly over the other town

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It's on one

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At some point you know

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I don't know

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I don't know what I'm promoting

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In fact, it's the first kind of something

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It's called market

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And someone knows I was there

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And this is called market

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It's called market

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Yeah, so the idea

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Indeed is that every time you scan

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And it's an identity data relationships

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The identity is I am a customer

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That's it

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Or I am a customer who is vegetarian

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That's all the identity data you're sharing

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When you actually do the data transaction

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So this is why we're trying to shift this thinking

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It's not identity and data relationships

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So in the one location

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I have one identity

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And the other one I have

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I'm a completely different identity profile

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I'm still a customer

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And I'm still a vegetarian

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But there's no connection between the two